fps rule?

[clyde]

I usually play on bsk dd2 247 and official every now and then as 'ULTRAnumb', and I'm known to strafe really fast. The reason for my high speed is me playing with 300 fps because the more fps you have, the more speed you get with strafing.

An admin (Sakurai) keeps telling me to use 100 fps instead of 300 so I decided to post it here as no other admin tells me to not use high fps. In my opinion I should be allowed to use 300 fps because
1.) The command is there since the beginning of cs meaning a lot of people have used it and its not 'illegal'
2.) anyone with a good graphics card can get 300 fps by typing fps_max 300 and fps_override 1
and 3.) I see no reason for me to not use 300 fps because it's usable in game and it's certainly not an exploit.

I really hope there isn't a rule that states people can't use 300 fps because that's like saying people only have to play with commands like cl_updaterate 5 cl_cmdrate 5 and rate 5 instead of the normal ones -.-

 

[$atanic $pirit]

I usually play on bsk dd2 247 and official every now and then as 'ULTRAnumb', and I'm known to strafe really fast. The reason for my high speed is me playing with 300 fps because the more fps you have, the more speed you get with strafing.



 

Please tell me, how is that not an exploit? You are using something that gives you more speed than a normal user. How is this any different from Speedhack? Of course the speed is not that much, but it does give you an unfair advantage. The reason why you use it is, because you wanna have that advantage, don't you? We all know it makes a world of a difference, otherwise why would you even be making this thread.

There are commands that have been around from the launch of this game, but should they really be allowed? You should also remember a command called "Developer 1". In last update, developer 1 command was removed, because it was being exploited. I never understood the reason, why they left fps_override to stay. Just because a cvar is there, doesn't mean that it should be used. Next thing would be people asking for sv_cheats to be 1, just because its a cvar.

I mean, no disrespect, but that's just my take on this whole scenario. Gstrafe and high fps are two exploits that have been used for way too long, and they have always benn neglected. Its not about being able to run more fps, but the fact that people are just using it to get unfair advantage over others. I would recommend you to not use fps_override 1 on BsK servers.




 

 

 

[clyde]

Please tell me, how is that not an exploit? You are using something that gives you more speed than a normal user. How is this any different from Speedhack? Of course the speed is not that much, but it does give you an unfair advantage. The reason why you use it is, because you wanna have that advantage, don't you? We all know it makes a world of a difference, otherwise why would you even be making this thread.

Okay maybe it is an 'exploit' but it clearly is still in the game and i see no reason for it to not be used it if can be. Anyone with a half good graphics card can get higher fps. Higher fps = more speed = more fun. It's way more enjoyable than normal cs when you get to strafe faster. Some people have better ping than others and that lets them play better and can make a 'world of difference'. Heck, everyone in csgo usually has 300+ fps and if 1.6 allows it then I don't see any reason at all for it to not be used if it's possible ~_~

There are commands that have been around from the launch of this game, but should they really be allowed? You should also remember a command called "Developer 1". In last update, developer 1 command was removed, because it was being exploited. I never understood the reason, why they left fps_override to stay. Just because a cvar is there, doesn't mean that it should be used. Next thing would be people asking forsv_cheats to be 1, just because its a cvar. 

That's entirely opinon based. People are just not aware of fps_override existing and the speed it gives. I'm pretty sure if everyone was aware of the command they would be using the hell out of it in multi jump servers just for more fun. IMO it should be allowed because most new valve games is default 300 fps and it's way more fun than 100.

I mean, no disrespect, but that's just my take on this whole scenario. Gstrafe and high fps are two exploits that have been used for way too long, and they have always benn neglected. Its not about being able to run more fps, but the fact that people are just using it to get unfair advantage over others. I would recommend you to not use fps_override 1 on BsK servers. 

I also don't consider gstrafing to be an exploit as it really is just double ducking and strafing. Again, it's peoples opinions. But the 'official' opinon (valve) is that it exists and it can be used. And again, I don't consider it to give me 'an unfair advantage' because literally anyone can just press ~ and type fps_override 1 <_<. 

Anyway if it really is not allowed then I would suggest adding an fps cap (100) so it isn't abused. Good day

[clyde]

Also, setting cl_updaterate 101, cl_cmdrate 101, rate 100000 is also an exploit since its not a default setting. and they "added" fps_override in the new update, not "left it in".

[RufiS]

Yes, changing any setting through console is an exploit.  If you don't change your settings through the options menu, you are exploiting the game, and therefor not playing fair.  Not everyone has the knowledge to use console settings, it is unfair to them for you to change settings to ones not listed in the games options menu.  I am of course kidding, and would like to direct you to http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/fi...=131408794

Section 2.2.5 FPS
The fps_max cvar also got an update. You can now override the maximum fps rate by using fps_override 1, and then set fps_max to your desired frame rate. In the beginning, people had HUGE problems with movement when the fps exceeded 100. These problems got solved, but the command is still far from perfect. Valve is still working on fixing movement at 100+ fps. Some people complain about fps_max not being locked to the correct fps, and that it, for example, spikes at 100.5 fps when having fps_max at 100. My personal opinion is that I couldn't give a flying **** about fps being 100 / 100,5, but if it is a problem just set fps_max 99.5 (or 99) in your USERCONFIG.


Now that I've shared this knowledge, I hope we can all benefit from it together.


also, haha clyde, i have more [BsK] Experience than you :-P
 

[$atanic $pirit]

You guys just agreed to the fact that, fps exploit does exist. Also rufis, that community guide does state that fps_max command is not perfect, which referred to the fact that it does increase the speed. Alfred, who is the official maintainer of HLDS has also acknowledged fps exploit, but he didn't fix it because of community's outcry for surf servers.

Coming back to Clyde's reply. Yes, it is an opinion, but it is the opinion of people who are running these servers. Official valve servers allow it, that's all I hear from you, but there are no official servers left out there, if there are? Then feel free to play there and use any commands that you want. Others might not take this as an exploit, but we do. I was working on blocking any use of the cvars that we don't want in the server, and soon players will see that taking effect.

Bottom line is that, Nobody is forced to play in BsK servers, and if you choose to play here, then you must play within the limits. Got a problem? feel free to leave.


 

[RufiS]

Where it says that about the fps not working right, was an old bug with going over 100 fps that they have fixed.  It made all the movement from your client slower, ex: running, falling, walking, throwing out nades.  That was pre-update, i know, i tried running developer 1 for the extra fps and it caused me to move slower so I shut it off.    Advantages of MAX fps, and im not talking 300fps im talking going as high as the server  FPS (usually 250,500, or 1000).  Running your client over 100fps improves your game play and your reg.  The server operates by frames, I think BsK servers are 1000fps.  Each frame contains data about that precise moment in time that it is generated.  Each time your cs client gets information from the server, it is one of those frames.  If you know anything about Digital to Analog Conversion, than you know that the more bits you have, more precise conversion is done, analog signal, ex, 16-bit sound vs 24-bit sound.  With CS, the more frames you can receive from the server in one second "F,P,S", the more precise your game is.  Now, people will throw the cl_updaterate argument at me,(which after the update you should be using 102, not 101, 102 is "auto") and I will rebut with this easy to perform experiment.   Go into game, console, net_graph 1, yes use 1, it gives the most useful information.  fps_override 0.  Now, look at how fast the lines are moving from right to left.  Look at the k/s values.  now, fps_override 1, ,fps_max 10000.  (yes i said 10,000.  this enables you to just get as many frames per second as your computer and gfx card can do.  ALSO NOTE THIS: if you are playing on a server that is 500fps, and your average actually FPS using "10,000" is OVER 500fps, than you are going to basically lag out and not be able to move until you are getting an average fps lower than the servers fps.)
NOW exit console and look at how fast those lines are going from right to left, look at the increased k/s.  This is all because you are  getting and sending more information per second to the server.   More info per second = more precision = better accuracy = that bad reg is good now.  You're welcome for telling you what fps over 100 is ACTUALLY USED FOR.  IT IS ACTUALLY USED TO GET BETTER REGISTRATION OF YOUR BULLETS AND MOVEMENTS.  being able to jump around fast on a multi-jump server is either a result of the increased data between you and server per second, OR just a random effect caused by the fixes they put in place, but i don't think so. 


I would also like to note that, if you have fps over 100, you stumble more when you land from a jump, there in an increased delay in the time you walk slowly.  This was a "fix" introduced back in 1.3->1.4 update to prevent bunnyhopping, and im told it is no there when under 100fps anymore,  so imo, if you don't have >100fps you're cheating because your landing doesn't stumble like mine does, you get back to full speed faster than i do (this is regular classic cs physics, btw. not specific to multijump)

I will also add, he who runs the server, makes the rules. As disagreeable with them as anyone could/can/would be, owner/leaders make the rules. Example, on MEAN servers, you're not allowed to shoot at people through walls, or crouch hop. Yes, they ban you for these offenses.

[$atanic $pirit]

All good information, but you are missing an one important factor. Server has a lock for few values like sv_minrate, sv_maxrate, sv_minupdaterate and sv_maxupdaterate. We don't have anything to control client's fps value. What I'm trying to say is that we can manage the inflow and outflow of data, but we can't manage the kind of data that is being sent.

We both agree that the game data is processed based on fps. Just to enforce this, I would suggest you to use "new game" feature and monitor the load times in both cases.

Basically with a high fps count, we are forcing the game to process data at a higher rate. Now, the biggest question here would be that, is the data processed at 100 fps the same, as if it was processed at 300 fps? My opinion would be that its not the same, as it removes the slow down after the jump and somehow while giving the server more accurate information. It fails to consider the default movement speed.

Neither of us have access to the HLDS source code to actually make a 100% true statement, but that's my take on the whole scenario. In my opinion, it would be better to not allow fps_override, than allowing it and then trying to make random guess. This is why, the approach that valve took with source games is a lot better, as they have locked the server fps value.

 

[$atanic $pirit]

There has been some confusions about the fps exploits or speedhacks. Whichever term works for you, so I'm gonna link up the discussion when this bug was originally discovered. Take your time to read and check out the evidence/info provided in this thread and the link.

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/halflife/issues/1262